A chance for skeptics to answer this question?
December 15, 2010 by Herbals Medicines
Filed under conventional medicine
Nosey posted this question:
“Drug based medicine is a danger to us, our children and our pets. Should it be banned?”
http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpieces/american%20health%20system.htm
The above article quantifies the damage done by conventional medicine in terms of the fatalities it causes through sick care rather than health care.
The website also has the scoop on people who claim to be members of skeptic organizations as mouthpieces for the drug industry.
Is anyone fooled by the motives behind their trolling of alternative medicine websites?
Conventional medicine is “drug based”. Holistic medicine is not. Pretty basic stuff.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ake46VYNVeSni88EuIJNAFEb53NG;_ylv=3?qid=20101202044727AAjUfOL
I thought we’d all like a chance to answer this absurd question….
And Nosey, if you are reading: Awful post… just awful. By far your worst airing to date.
Now give Nosey her dues. Its’ always impressive the way the alties manage to get it so wrong with so few words, in one question.
So how is everyone today? I hear that Russia have won the bid to host the 2018 world cup. TBH the only thing worse than the Russians hosting the world cup would have been the Americans’- they can’t even say football (its” NOT soccer) let alone play it. Unless the Americans’ learn to call it by it’s real name, they are always going to suck at it. You know what, I am still mad at them.
Not too sure what the question is here.
If the question is whether or not homeopathic “alternative” medicine works, the answer is of course not.
It is completely insane to think that a diluted medication would work equally or more effective than the same, non-diluted formula. The only reason one might think that it works better, or at all, would be the placebo effect.
Now as for non-homeopathic alternative medicine, I think it is equally absurd to think that this couldn’t work. There are naturally occurring chemicals that we can find in plants and animals, that aren’t manufactured in a lab, that have a similar purpose. For example, both benzodiazepines and a plant known as “Kava” work on similar receptors in the brain causing similar effects, however “kava” is seen as alternative medicine.
In short, homeopathic medicine is a total farce, but other “alternative” medicines, those which contain legit active chemicals (e.g. kava, kratom, marijuana, etc.), could be potentially used in the place of their lab-produced counterparts.
Cheers!
Thanks to evidence based medicine including drugs, many wonderful people are still with us today. And that is reason enough for me to just say no.
EDIT:
Don’t know much about sport, but in Denmark we call football “fodbold”. And it is a game where 22 young millionaires chase a ball on a lawn, and give it a kick whenever they can, so from a rational viewpoint the name of the game is appropriate. But why do the americans call rugby football?? They are running with the ball in their hands.
Sorry Nate. No offence meant. But to a sports ignorant dane like me, they look the same. And it is still puzzling why you call it football when you are running with the ball most of the time.
Nate: It is a “Nisse” (Don’t know what it is called in english) sitting on top of my microscope. Unfortunately it is not a robot – that would have been cool. It doesn’t even use electricity. “Nisses” appear everywhere at this time of year.
Joe: I promise I will never ever confuse those two again – Guess I deserve all the thumdowns that come my way.
Thank you Angelhil. I lived in Copenhagen when I was studying medicine. And I grew up in Humlebaek, which is quite close to Hillerod.
@Theresa:
Your statement that “some people have has some horrendous experiences with conventional medicine and their reactions are just as comprehensible.” is true. But I also believe that practitioners of conventional medicine are more honest to their patients regarding what realistically can be achieved with the treatment, and the risks involved than practitioners of alt med. Serious incidences of malpractice within the conventional system is dealt with. Such self justice is not part of alt med culture – unfortunately. You may argue that science doesn’t have all the answers, and be right about it. But it is far more superior than anything else we have.
“I can name three clear and reasonably serious mistakes that doctors and the hospital made with me, two years ago.”
That certainly explains where your anger comes from, and why you see me and others as sheer evil.
“You are making unfounded statements without anything like evidence.”
I am not sure what you would accept as evidence.
“You have exposed your naivete in asserting that conventional medicine deals with it’s problem practitioners.” No – you are letting your hatred (and your personal experience) cloud your mind from accepting it. In my country malpractice cases are published on the website of the national health board for everybody to learn from. And in the most severe cases, the names of the “offenders” are given too. But you can of course make the argument that not all incidences are uncovered, and you will probably be right. We all (including doctors) expect doctors to not ever make any mistakes. But doctors are only human, and they do sometimes make mistakes, even with a fatal outcome. Even if your personal experience tells you otherwise, most are open about it. If you can show me that such a system exists within the ranks of alt med I am willing to stand corrected.
“I also know for a fact that they will not acknowledge their mistakes, and I am unlikely to find any doctor or administrator that would support me.”
In my opinion you shouldn’t have to find a doctor/administrator yourself. You should have a system, where your complaint automatically would be assessed by an independent doctor with knowledge in the field.
EDIT:
I believe that Theresa’s latest response confirms that she IS a very hateful person. Throwing tantrums at people who express (partial) agreement is hateful behaviour. I am guessing that one of the thumdowns that came my way is from her, and that she gave it before I addressed her the first time. Why would she do that? She agreed that the answer is no to the question. The next part was an expression of happiness of wonderful people still being with us. I don’t think she disagrees on that – but I am willing to stand corrected if that is the case. Then there was the sports ignorance, that I demonstrated in public. A TD for that would of course be acceptable, but I doubt that was it. That leaves us with hatred as the only reason.
A comment like this:”….. I am unlikely to find any doctor or administrator that would support me.”
followed by this: ” ….many of our family friends are in the medical profession, I have a huge amount of respect for my orthopedic surgeon, and the anaesthetist who usually accompanies him, my physio is fantastic, and my GP is wonderful.” makes one wonder who needs enemies with friends like that.
Oh – and then there is this one:
“It’s time you pulled your foot out of your mouth, and pulled your head in.”
I’d say that hatefulness is a confirmed fact.
How do you eve answer such nonsense? I mean what part of that contained any truth? It’s like trying to answer “how do i wrestle my pet chimera?” It’s just nonsensical hooey.
EDIT: I suppose I’m the only hockey, wrestling, MMA, and football fan out of all of the “skeptic wolfpack” then.
“Foreign owned “Big Pharma” is bleeding us to death.”
This part really hit home for me. It’s subtle repetition echoes in my mind.
I’m not big on banning stuff.
Sorry to say, but I’m not very knowledgeable about soc I MEAN FOOTBALL
Edit: Joe, she blocks anyone that calls her on her BS. You are correct, she is only interested in like-minded opinions. Hardly anyone answers them. It must be lonely.
She never answers any questions posted by skeptics and doesn’t respond to criticism in other questions. She lives in a bubble, really.
JLI, sometimes it’s qualified American football, which is to say NFL. Rugby is indeed called rugby, it’s not the same and it’s not very popular in North America.
Edit: JLI, I can’t quite tell, but that looks like a robot Santa. . .please say its a robot Santa.
Edit: I took no offense. I can neither stand to watch nor play American football. I’m a devoted hockey fan and my team has, I believe, the only Dane in the whole NHL.
As a qualified Aromatherapist I believe in complimentary treatment that works alongside conventional treatment.
The thought of not working alongside the medical profession is a dangerous one.
I only have to look around my own family and count those who would not be here today had it not been for conventional medicine to find there would not be many left, myself included.
I can’t take people seriously who bash the very thing that gave them life. Show me someone over the age of two who HASN’T taken an antibiotic.
~~~~~~
Soccer is a proper term.
“Soccer is an abbreviation for Association Football. The Football
Association was formed in London in October 1863 when representatives
of eleven clubs and schools met in an attempt to standardize the rules
of the game. One of the rules prohibited the carrying of the ball, a
rule that would lead to the Rugby-oriented clubs leaving the
Association several months later. The name Association Football was
coined to distinguish it from Rugby. By 1889, the abbreviation socca’ was in use, and the spelling soccer had made its appearance by 1895.”
It is interesting that on another “question” posed by Nosey – citing some vague and qualitative pablum about homeopathic waters….I HAVE BEEN BLOCKED!!
Now why would anyone block me? Is the alternative philosophy so weak that the adherents are afraid of me? Is this not a forum for people to express their opinions? I can only think that Nosey only wants to hear from like minded people.
Talk about being close minded…..LOL
Rhianna – perhaps you should block Nosey, so that he/she will not be able to respond….what’s sauce for the goose……
JLI – we Americans call rugby rugby and football football.
@Theresa: It is also patently ridiculous to assert that only doctors have any integrity and alt med practitioners must be scammers.
But OKAY to call all doctors “pill pushers” and “Big Pharma payees”?
“The scoop” ? No, it’s just the usual unsubstantiated opinion piece.
Nosey constantly regurgitates any old piece of nonsense and presents it as fact, even if the piece presented is totally invalid and/or nonsensical.
I’m not sure we could really trust UK fans not to go on the rampage and bring shame on the country tbh, the olympics will do just fine for this decade though, glad to see it in my home country during my lifetime.
Fliz: No, I love MMA too!
No.
That’s my answer for the report trolls.
My real answer resides somewhere between GTFO and a belly laugh.
And sorry everyone, I can’t take grown men chasing a ball seriously, even if (perhaps especially if) they are eye candy.
The short answer is “No”, but we all know that some of it is dangerous and some of it is abused.
And neither should Alt Med be banned, despite the fervent wishes of some in this forum.
All arenas have problems, and all arenas have practitioners that either abuse the system or are incompetent.
Both conventional medicine and alt med have problems. Most people around this forum have extreme or irrational positions on one or the other. Neither industry has got the regulation right because the only way you can do that is for every practitioner to take responsibility for acting ethically.
You probably understand your reasons for ranting against Alt Med, but some people have has some horrendous experiences with conventional medicine and their reactions are just as comprehensible.
EDIT: JLI, you are wrong. You are making unfounded statements without anything like evidence. You have exposed your naivete in asserting that conventional medicine deals with it’s problem practitioners. EVERY industry has a history of PROVEN cover ups where people “back up their mates”. You should do more research and find out what percentage of reported malpractise and malfeasance actually results in action, accepting of course that some of those will be vexacious. I can name three clear and reasonably serious mistakes that doctors and the hospital made with me, two years ago. I also know for a fact that they will not acknowledge their mistakes, and I am unlikely to find any doctor or administrator that would support me. Over and over again on this forum people argue for conventional medicine’s acceptable risk, and gloss over the very real nightmare that some individuals end up living with.
You can’t have it both ways, with conventional medicine being given so much leeway, and making a song and dance about every little thing that might go wrong with Alt Med. It is gross bias, and undermines any authenticity you may be hoping for in this forum.
It is also patently ridiculous to assert that only doctors have any integrity and alt med practitioners must be scammers. The position that so many people take here is so “holier than thou”, so self-righteous. That type of position has no basis in reality. Any time you or anyone else puts yourself in that position, you are coming from an emotive mindset.
EDIT: JLI, you really do not know what you are talking about. You exhibit the worst kind of bias and ignorance. You cannot give yourself credibility by attacking mine, especially when you have got it so horribly wrong. In the credibility stakes you have hit a low I haven’t seen that often.
To give you an idea of how wrong your response was … my father is a dentist, I worked for him for 10 years, many of our family friends are in the medical profession, I have a huge amount of respect for my orthopedic surgeon, and the anaesthetist who usually accompanies him, my physio is fantastic, and my GP is wonderful.
It’s time you pulled your foot out of your mouth, and pulled your head in.
I’ll give you the same answer as the first question……
Probably not. It could be better managed though. When i had an NHS list there were far too many people on it taking 5 or 6 meds at the same time. Often they were taking meds to counteract the side effects of the other meds they were taking.
It does strike me as odd that the anti-altmed lobby justifies what it says and does sayings its primary concern is safety yet no system of medicine is more damaging and more destructive to peoples health than conventional medicine when it goes wrong.
Its not that it goes wrong infrequently. it happens with alarming regularity and kills more people than all the other systems of medicine put together.
Thats something we all need to bear in mind when we are critical of each other.
And no, life expectancy would not plumet if all conventional medicine was removed.
The way we live has the biggest impact on our life expectancy. Children continue to die from opportunistic infections in third world countries which most of us manage to shake off without any medicine because they live in filth and squalor and are malnourished.
Banning conventional medicine would be throwing the bay out with the bathwater because it does potentially have a lot to offer.
The same can be said for altmed
it is certainly a proven menace to public health, however, unlike it’s ignorance and greed driven advocates, i believe in the right to choose, even if the choice is a stupid and harmful one like taking medicine.
Show me a ‘sportsman’ and I’ll show you a child!